It’s anyone’s guess when mortgage rates will truly turn the corner. The average interest rate for a 30-year fixed-rate loan has crept above 3% a handful of times this year, but so far it’s failed to maintain this upward trajectory.

Yet while industry economists can’t reach consensus on the timing, they all agree that rates will eventually rise. Meanwhile, the pressure is on for mortgage originators to rekindle Realtor relationships that may have cooled during the refinance frenzy of the past 18 months.

The problem is not merely that pandemic-related social-distancing policies have kept originators and Realtors from meeting one another for open houses and cocktail dates. For many, the bigger challenge has been finding the time to connect with real estate agents at all, even virtually, while dealing with a deluge of refi opportunities.

Data intelligence

Even though 2021 sales volumes have failed to trump last year’s historic highs, the mortgage market is still in the midst of a refinance lending bonanza by any reasonable measure. In fact, in metro areas such as Atlanta, Detroit, Boston and Washington, D.C., refis accounted for more than 75% of all mortgages at the midpoint of the year.

Fortunately, Realtors who feel rebuffed may be willing to let bygones be bygones. With for-sale housing inventory at an all-time low, the National Association of Realtors reported that its membership count actually exceeds the number of U.S. homes on the market. Originators need Realtors — according to a McKinsey & Company report, 39% of first-time buyers and 27% of repeat buyers work with a Realtor to select their lender. But Realtors need originators, too. Since referral partnerships aren’t built (or rebuilt) overnight, now is the perfect time for lenders to lock in loyalty by demonstrating all the ways they can provide value.

With so many Realtors to choose from, loan originators might wonder where to focus their energies; after all, there are only so many hours in the day. To solve this challenge, mortgage companies are increasingly turning to data-intelligence tools that allow originators to assess current marketplace productivity and act on competitive intelligence to build the networks that best support their marketing strategies.

For instance, originators can identify which real estate agents are closing the most loans of a given type within a given geographical area. By keeping tabs on these agents’ activities, originators can know the moment a new listing goes live.

Branding opportunities

Of course, identifying highly productive referral partnerships is only useful to originators who are equipped to act on this intelligence. By piping the data directly into their mortgage marketing software, originators can automate the creation of co-branded marketing collateral that converts more leads to loans at a speed that truly wows Realtors. This is particularly useful in locales where homes are spending very little time on the market.

According to data from Realtor.com as of August 2021, the median amount of time that a U.S. home spent on the market was only 39 days. That’s a precipitous drop from the median of 61 days spent on the market in August 2019, before pandemic-related supply-chain issues exacerbated housing-inventory shortages.

With the right technology, a mortgage originator can receive alerts the moment a desirable referral partner posts a new listing. They can then introduce themselves mere minutes later with a cobranded website that is already generated, using data and images pulled straight from the property listing. As these single-property websites collect leads, a well-tuned marketing tech stack will automatically go to work on nurturing leads via omnichannel, co-branded marketing campaigns.

Demonstrated value

Impressing referral partners, however, isn’t just about marketing speed; it’s also about marketing quality. Today’s homebuyers and sellers have an abundant number of options when it comes to selecting a real estate agent, so helping Realtors stand out from the crowd is a meaningful way to demonstrate value.

One of the most effective ways for originators and real estate agents to differentiate themselves to potential clients is by highlighting their domain expertise. For originators, this might mean helping clients understand the current interest rate environment or walking them through what to expect during each phase of the homebuying journey. For Realtors, this may mean providing data-driven content that contextualizes a home’s value and demonstrates local-market expertise.

Preparing this kind of content doesn’t have to be a chore. Today’s customer relationship management (CRM) platforms offer automated, co-branded marketing campaigns for home-purchase leads that make it effortless to position lenders and Realtors as experts while helping borrowers make better-informed buying decisions.

Open houses returned with a vengeance this past summer as municipalities around the country rolled back COVID-19 restrictions. Then a fresh round of infections and updated guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention led many jurisdictions to redouble their social-distancing mandates.

To help keep homebuyers safe while allowing them to tour homes in person, some originators and Realtors are turning to electronic check-in solutions that eliminate common challenges associated with paper check-ins, such as unintelligible handwriting, burdensome and error-prone manual data entry, and misplaced sign-in sheets. Better still, data from electronic check-in services can be funneled straight into the mortgage CRM as another vehicle for kicking off automated marketing campaigns.

● ● ●

Some originators have been reluctant to take advantage of these kinds of co-marketing features due to compliance concerns. Federal guidelines prohibit lenders and real estate partners from receiving any “thing of value” in exchange for referrals. But there’s no longer any need to delay.

Many of the industry’s leading CRM systems now offer solutions that make it easy for originators and referral partners to co-brand marketing collateral with control and confidence. This eliminates the need for mortgage originators to choose between strong marketing relationships, regulatory compliance and operational ease. ●

Author

  • Rick Webster

    Rick Webster is vice president of client strategy at Top of Mind Networks, a Black Knight company. He draws on his experience from a career that has spanned the mortgage, marketing and technology industries to help mortgage lenders fine-tune their marketing and sales-funnel strategies.

    View all posts

Top Dollar Volume

Top FHA Volume

Top HELOC Volume

Most Loans Closed

Top Mortgage Brokers

Top Non-QM Volume

Top Purchase Volume

Top Refinance Volume

Top USDA Volume

Top VA Volume

Top Veteran Originators

Top Jumbo Originators

For Top Originators rankings going back to 2010, see the April editions of the magazine in our digital magazine library

Top Women Originators

Top Overall

Top Wholesale

Top Retail

Top Non-QM

Top FHA

Top VA

Top Correspondent

Top Bank Statement

Top DSCR

For Top Mortgage Lenders rankings going back to 2010, see the June editions of the magazine in our digital magazine library

Kurt Brandly | 36

Greenside Capital

Florida

11 years in business

President of Greenside Capital, a top boutique brokerage specializing in investor financing. Former top producer and leader at Rocket Mortgage who helped redevelop multiple client-facing roles, partnered with Morgan Stanley and American Express, and earned dual master’s degrees in Business and Finance while working full-time. Kurt is redefining the client experience around homeownership, wealth building, and financial literacy.

James Burton | 39

Southern Trust Mortgage

South Carolina

4 years in business

James Burton is a South Carolina mortgage loan officer known for Lending the Lowcountry. With over four years of experience and a proud family legacy in mortgage lending, James became a top producer early in his career. A Citadel graduate and avid outdoorsman, he’s recognized for his relentless dedication, five-star service, and commitment to being his clients’ lender for life.

JD Cutri | 34

Plaza Home Mortgage

California

11 years in business

JD Cutri is the VP of Non-Delegated Lending for Plaza Home Mortgage, where he is responsible for driving growth and expanding Plaza’s Non-Delegated Correspondent production nationwide. Throughout his career, Cutri has been recognized for his leadership and performance, earlier as Co-Founder of Plaza’s Young Mortgage Professionals Association and more recently earning Plaza’s Select Circle Award and ranking as one of the company’s top producers.

Nate Clear | 36

FirstFunding Inc

City, TX

15 years in business

Nate Clear, President of FirstFunding, is transforming warehouse lending through innovation and disciplined execution. He has doubled monthly fundings, tripled sales, and launched new onboarding, training, and client service programs that improved efficiency, responsiveness, and client experience. Clear’s leadership drives agility, inclusion, and sustainable growth-fueling record performance.

Nick DeJesus | 38

Planet Home Lending

Pennsylvania

9 years in business

As a producing branch manager, DeJesus stands out for leadership, drive, and consistently exceptional results. Since opening Planet’s Bethlehem, PA branch in 2022, he’s built a high-performing team focused on affordability, personalized guidance, and lifelong relationships. A NAHREP and Planet President’s Club Top Originator, he also supports local animal shelters, helping families and pets alike find their forever homes.

Abbie Newell | 31

American Heritage Lending

Arizona

11 years in business

Abbie Newell is a seasoned Mortgage Closer at American Heritage Lending, bringing over a decade of experience; known for her precision, communication, and care, she ensures every deal, from purchase to refinance, closes smoothly. Her expertise across FHA, VA, USDA, and state housing programs strengthens AHL’s commitment to service and excellence.

Joseph Morley | 26

Park Place Finance

Texas

3 years in business

Joseph Morley is a Senior Account Executive at Park Place Finance, supporting lending operations and driving revenue growth. He specializes in building strong client relationships, developing strategic partnerships, and delivering consistent results through deep industry knowledge and proven sales expertise.

Allison Moore | 27

Leader Bank

Massachusetts

3 years in business

Alli joined Leader Bank after grad-school and immediately made an impact with creative solutions for connecting with real estate agents and educating homebuyers. Alli is dedicated to developing accessible educational tools, classes, and content for young homebuyers, and to empowering her generation to get access to powerful wealth-building tools. Her impact at Leader has been instantly positive, and we’re proud to have her on the team.

Tracy Mock | 37

Gateway Mortgage

Texas

10 years in business

Tracy Mock, is a Mortgage Sales Manager for Gateway Mortgage based in San Antonio with a decade of industry experience. She focuses on helping first-time buyers navigate FHA, VA, conventional, and down-payment assistance programs with straightforward guidance, proactive updates, and disciplined loan management. Tracy’s approach combines clear budgeting, realistic timelines, and consistent communication to minimize surprises and keep transactions.

Rocco Mandarino | 28

Maverick Lending NYC

New Jersey

1 year in business

Rocco Mandarino, Branch Manager of Maverick Lending NYC, is one of private lending’s fastest-rising leaders. Specializing exclusively in DSCR and investor financing, he partners with top brokers, luxury SFR investors, and build-to-rent developers nationwide. Having surpassed $100M in his first year, Rocco is redefining speed, precision, and execution as the new gold standard in private lending.

Bryan Lovern | 37

CrossCountry Mortgage

Maryland

11 years in business

Bryan Lovern is an Originating Branch Manager at CrossCountry Mortgage. Since joining the mortgage industry in 2013, Bryan has used his years of experience as a sales manager to become an expert in FHA loans, refinances, and the local market, providing exceptional customer service to his clients. Bryan is based in Crofton, Maryland.

Andy Levison | 38

Groundfloor Lending

Georgia

5 years in business

Andy Levison is the Associate Director of Retail Originations at Groundfloor Lending. Since joining in 2020, he is the company’s top producer. Fluent in Spanish, he drives growth among the company’s Spanish speaking demo. In 2025 alone, he is projected to originate more than $110 million in loan volume. In 2023, he was tasked with expanding Groundfloor’s presence in Nashville, which has since become a key growth area. He also mentors new hires.

Christopher Leon | 39

CrossCountry Mortgage

Arizona

13 years in business

Chris Leon is a Regional Vice President and Originating Branch Manager at CrossCountry Mortgage. Based in Sierra Vista, Arizona, Chris has been recognized as a Scotsman Guide Top Originator since 2016 and as the #1 Latino Mortgage Originator in the Southwest by National Association of Real Estate Agents. Chris is dedicated to serving his borrowers as a loan officer, bringing the dream of homeownership to members of community.

Eric Krattenstein | 37

American Heritage Lending

New Jersey

10 years in business

Eric Krattenstein is the Managing Director of American Heritage Lending, leading national sales, marketing, and growth for one of the nation’s premier Non-QM and private lenders. With over a decade of executive experience in real estate finance, he drives scalable growth through data-driven strategy, innovation, and leadership that continues to redefine Non-QM lending nationwide.

Abdel Khawatmi | 35

PRMG

New Jersey

7 years in business

Abdel Khawatmi is the Branch Manager at PRMG & a President’s Cabinet Member recognized among the nation’s top 1% mortgage originator. A visionary leader known for scaling teams through technology, automation, and culture, he’s redefined what modern lending looks like. From national stages to mastermind events, Abdel empowers loan officers to systemize success, serve with impact, and build sustainable growth through innovation reshaping the modern

Victoria Kammer | 38

CrossCountry Mortgage

Pennsylvania

15 years in business

Victoria Kammer is an Originating Branch Manager at CrossCountry Mortgage, specializing in first-time homebuyers, jumbo loans, non-QM loans, purchase, and refinance. With a passion for the mortgage industry, Victoria has dedicated the past 15 years to supporting clients through the loan process and helping them find the home of their dreams. She recently earned recognition on Scotsman Guide’s 2025 Top Originators list. Victoria is a graduate of Lafayette College and resides in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 

Ryan Kearns | 37

Kearns Mortgage Team, LLC

Florida

4 years in business

In just four years, Ryan Kearns has grown Kearns Mortgage Team from a solo start into a six-member brokerage known for client-first service and steady year-over-year growth despite challenging market environments. By blending education with technology, he creates clarity and confidence for families navigating the mortgage process. He serves on Hillsborough County’s Affordable Housing Advisory Board, shaping initiatives that expand opportunity.

Julian Zimmerman | 29

Groundfloor Lending

Kansas

6 years in business

Julian Zimmerman is the Director of Lending Operations at Groundfloor, where she has transformed the company’s lending infrastructure and operational efficiency since joining as a processor in 2020. In 2023, she built Groundfloor’s Loan Origination System and Borrower Portal from the ground up, doubling originations and improving compliance. In 2024, she launched the servicing platform, unifying and modernizing the borrower experience.

Daniel Norris | 33

American Heritage Lending

California

4 years in business

Daniel Norris is a Sr. Relationship Manager at American Heritage Lending, where he builds and maintains strong partnerships with brokers and clients nationwide. With over four years at AHL, Daniel is known for his responsiveness, attention to detail, and commitment to delivering the speed and service that define Non-QM lending redefined.

Phi Nguyen | 30

American Heritage Lending

California

5 years in business

Phi Nguyen is a Senior Loan Processor at American Heritage Lending, bringing over four years of Non-QM experience and a unique background in education. Her strong communication and problem-solving skills help guide clients through each step with care and precision. Known for her balance, empathy, and dedication, Phi embodies AHL’s people-first approach to lending.

Kylie Raffi | 28

Southern Trust Mortgage

Virginia

6 years in business

A top-producing loan officer with six years of experience at Southern Trust Mortgage, Kylie Raffi is dedicated to helping Hampton Roads families achieve homeownership. In 2024, she earned the Virginia Housing Bronze Award for assisting 23 families and securing $380,000 in grants, a testament to her commitment to affordable lending, community impact, and unwavering dedication as a trusted advocate for her clients and partners.

Brandon Reilly | 30

Southern Trust Mortgage

Virginia

8 years in business

A Hampden-Sydney College graduate with a background in construction and eight years of mortgage experience, Brandon Reilly is a trusted leader in Richmond, VA. Specializing in first-time, jumbo, and construction loans, he guides clients with patience and expertise. Brandon’s consultative style and community focus reflect his belief that every client deserves personalized care and attention.

Charles Ryan | 35

PRMG

Georgia

13 years in business

Charles Ryan is a top-producing Account Executive celebrated for his unwavering dedication, professionalism, and passion for helping clients succeed. With multiple 5-star reviews, Charles has earned a reputation for delivering exceptional service, clear and confident communication, and personalized lending solutions tailored to each client’s unique goals.
 

Jordan Saceda | 38

E Mortgage Capital

California

8 years in business

Born in Juneau, Alaska, Jordan Saceda learned early that smart financial decisions matter more than income. After moving to California, he found his calling in mortgages-helping families and investors navigate real estate with clarity. Jordan treats every client like family because he knows what’s at stake when financing a home.

Milad Shamoun | 29

Loan Goat

California

4 years in business

Milad Shamoun, Founder of Loan Goat, is a dominant force in California’s real estate finance world. A former U.S. Marine Sergeant, he transformed military precision into business excellence. Today, he stands as one of the top residential & commercial hard money lenders in the state. Known for creative marketing, funding large loans, deep market expertise, & relentless drive, Milad has made Loan Goat a gold standard in trust, speed, & results.

Kayla Tarabay | 32

Novus Home Mortgage

Massachusetts

3 years in business

With a kind-hearted approach and strong work ethic, Kayla Tarabay guides clients through every step of the mortgage process with clarity and care. Kayla’s dedication and commitment to building her personal brand have taken her business to new heights this year. Outside of work, Kayla is a proud mom, dog lover, and fitness enthusiast who believes life should be filled with energy, purpose, and a little fun.

Chaim Weiser | 30

The Leopard Group

New York

6 years in business

Chaim Weiser, Loan Officer at The Leopard Group, is rapidly earning recognition in the mortgage industry. Specializing in QM, Non-QM, bridge, HELOC, and commercial financing, he is known for precision, responsiveness, and strategic deal structuring. With strong relationships and a results-driven approach, Chaim delivers high-impact solutions and stands out as a true Top Emerging Star.

Julia Willetts | 27

Merchants Mortgage

Colorado

9 years in business

Julia Willetts began her career at Merchants in 2016 and has since earned two promotions, now serving as Vice President of Loan Originations. Over the past year, she has funded more than $108M in loans across 15 states, helping real estate investors finance both rehab and new construction projects, while leading a team of loan originators that deliver exceptional service from start to finish.

Matthew Ziegert | 35

CrossCountry Mortgage

New Jersey

9 years in business

Matthew Ziegert is a Divisional Sales Manager at CrossCountry Mortgage specializing in purchase and refinance. He built his business around helping clients achieve homeownership by finding the ideal loan for their unique circumstances. Matthew has ranked in the top 1% of loan officers nationwide for the last eight years. He resides in Rockaway, New Jersey, with his wife and children. 

Nate Clear | 36

FirstFunding Inc

Texas

15 years in business

Nate Clear, President of FirstFunding, is transforming warehouse lending through innovation and disciplined execution. He has doubled monthly fundings, tripled sales, and launched new onboarding, training, and client service programs that improved efficiency, responsiveness, and client experience. Clear’s leadership drives agility, inclusion, and sustainable growth-fueling record performance.

Allison Moore | 27

Leader Bank

Massachusetts

3 years in business

Alli joined Leader Bank after grad-school and immediately made an impact with creative solutions for connecting with real estate agents and educating homebuyers. Alli is dedicated to developing accessible educational tools, classes, and content for young homebuyers, and to empowering her generation to get access to powerful wealth-building tools. Her impact at Leader has been instantly positive, and we’re proud to have her on the team.

Andy Levison | 38

Groundfloor Lending

Georgia

5 years in business

Andy Levison is the Associate Director of Retail Originations at Groundfloor Lending. Since joining in 2020, he is the company’s top producer. Fluent in Spanish, he drives growth among the company’s Spanish speaking demo. In 2025 alone, he is projected to originate more than $110 million in loan volume. In 2023, he was tasked with expanding Groundfloor’s presence in Nashville, which has since become a key growth area. He also mentors new hires.

Brent Hoffman | 36

PRMG

Ohio

14 years in business

Brent Hoffman made a bold move to give clients and partners the best. For nine years at PRMG, he’s built success on transparency, efficiency, and genuine care. As a Branch Manager and President’s Cabinet member, he delivers competitive loans with fast approvals and smooth closings. His independent structure ensures personalized service, and his passion shines through in every transaction.

Peter Jose | 35

PRMG

Maine

10 years in business

Peter Jose is a dynamic Branch Manager with a finance degree and a passion for helping people achieve homeownership. Known for his professionalism, enthusiasm, and creative problem-solving, he ensures borrowers feel informed and supported. A member of PRMG’s President’s Cabinet, he brings energy, expertise, and genuine care to every loan.

Kevin Victoria | 30

CV3 Financial Services

Arizona

7 years in business

In 7 years, Kevin has risen from Sales Associate to VP of Sales. He led his team of 11 originators to break company records, funding $800M/1,500 units in 2 years. A transformative leader with exceptional sales acumen and relentless work ethic, Kevin’s impact reaches far beyond his own production of $100M+. Balancing scale with personalized service, he has built systems, launched initiatives and solidified partnerships to drive enduring success.

Lauren Robert | 35

Leader Bank

Massachusetts

5 years in business

In 2023, Lauren helped launch Leader Bank’s Cape Cod Mortgage Office and has spent the time since helping to build the Leader Cape Team from the #11 to the #2 Purchase Lender in the area. Her personal expertise and experience has seen her own volume rise over 40% to $40 million and counting in 2025. In the last few years she has successfully built her own business, helped build a whole new loan office, and raise 3 children. She is a rock star!
 

Andres Saias | 32

RBI Private Lending

Florida

15 years in business

Andres Saias, Chief Lending Officer & founding Board Member at RBI Private Lending, is a seasoned real estate finance expert in real estate investment finance. With degrees from Georgetown (M.S. Real Estate) & Boston U, he’s driven RBI’s growth since 2015.

Erica LaCentra | 35

RCN Capital

Connecticut

13 years in business

Erica LaCentra, CMO at RCN Capital, has transformed the brand into a national leader. Her fearless leadership, strategic vision, and mentorship drive award-winning campaigns and industry innovation. Honored by MPA, NMP and more, she’s earned widespread recognition for her impact, with multiple industry accolades celebrating her innovation and influence. Erica is a trailblazer in private lending and a role model for women in marketing.

Kyle Johnson | 32

CrossCountry Mortgage

Washington State

10 years in business

Kyle Johnson is a nationally ranked Branch Manager and Mortgage Advisor with CrossCountry Mortgage, leading a top-performing team based in Lacey, WA. Helping families across the country, he’s guided over 2,000 families nationwide with a concierge-level approach rooted in clarity, care, and expertise, specializing in VA loans and relocations for military families.

Chania Ford | 28

Groundfloor Lending

Georgia

1 year in business

Chania Ford is a Business Development Manager at Groundfloor Lending. A first-generation Caribbean-American from New York City, she transitioned from product development to real estate finance, quickly excelling in investor relations. Known for her confidence and relationship-building skills, she’s a trusted partner to both new and experienced investors.

Alec Finn | 33

American Heritage Lending

Illinois

6 years in business

Alec Finn is a Producing Sales Manager at American Heritage Lending, helping real estate and mortgage professionals grow their referral networks and expand their Non-QM business. Based in Chicago, he drives Midwest market growth through creative lending solutions, strong partnerships, and a results-driven approach that reflects AHL’s mission to redefine Non-QM lending nationwide.

Daniel Halvorsen | 36

LoanPeople

Florida

14 years in business

Daniel is a Scotsman Guide Top Originator and 40 Under 40 winner. Through a referral-driven approach, he has personally funded over $1 billion in volume. Halvorsen is Northeast Florida’s #1 retail originator (CoreLogic) and a leading originator for loans utilizing Florida Housing Corp. DPA programs. He champions accessible homeownership, enjoys guitar and family time, and supports Clarke Schools For Hearing & Speech and Wolfson Children’s Hospital.

Travis Harris | 36

Southern Trust Mortgage

Virginia

13 years in business

A James Madison University graduate who began his career in mortgage marketing, Travis Harris has spent over a decade redefining community service through lending. Since 2012, he’s helped hundreds of Hampton Roads families achieve homeownership through creativity, education, and strong builder and Realtor partnerships. Known for his sharp mind and local heart, Travis builds lasting relationships through exceptional service.

Connor Donovan | 26

Park Place Finance

Texas

4 years in business

Connor Donovan serves as Chief Revenue Officer at Park Place Finance, leading the sales team and managing lending operations nationwide. With his experience in mortgage and financial services, he drives revenue growth, builds strategic partnerships, and leads high-performing sales teams through expert leadership and industry insight.

Thomas Evans | 31

Acadia Lending Group

Maine

8 years in business

Tom Evans combines industry expertise with genuine enthusiasm for helping people reach their homeownership goals. He works with everyone from first-time buyers to seasoned investors and those seeking second homes in Vacationland. Known for his quick thinking, strong problem-solving skills, and client-first approach, Tom delivers thoughtful lending solutions designed to fit every borrower’s needs.

Justin Margolis | 35

PRMG

Florida

13 years in business

Justin Margolis is a top 1% Originator and PRMG President’s Cabinet member known for his leadership in Non-QM lending. As VP of Non-QM Business Development and Branch Sales Manager, he drives growth, optimizes operations, and supports partners across Retail, Wholesale, and Correspondent channels. A Scotsman Guide Top Originator, Justin brings expertise, energy, and a results-driven focus to every transaction.

Daniel Lemeshev | 29

CrossCountry

Mortgage

New Jersey

3 years in business

Daniel Lemeshev is the SVP of Mortgage Lending at CrossCountry Mortgage, specializing in purchase, refinance, and first-time homebuyers. He has earned recognition as a Top 40 loan originator in the U.S., according to Scotsman Guide. Daniel is based in Hoboken, New Jersey.

Jessica Davolio | 35

Leader Bank

Massachusetts

6 years in business

Jess is a client advocate. She works through complicated and difficult deals with an unmatched tenacity. Her clients are consistently amazed by her consistent efforts to put them in the best financial position. In her first year with Leader Bank she grew her production volume by 90% to over $25 million and is set for even greater heights in 2026. She’s active in local mom’s groups, a golfer, and she never shies away from trying something new!

error: Content is protected !!